Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Into electric cars, hydrogen engines, biodiesel; in fact any sort of alternative fuel vehicle? Here's the place for you - questions, tips, resources and electric car/alternative fuel vehicle news.

Re: Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Postby Tracker » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:49 pm

antoni wrote:... no petrol needed....

Perhaps in a few years time...
There are still areas that you just can't go unless you have petrol or diesel.. I doubt that you could drive to Perth on LPG..

to me,,, The BIG issue is the cost of DIY CNG... $10,000 will take a long time to recover.. ie. $3000 for the car conversion, and $7000 for a compressor.
..
.
Tracker
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 5067
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:54 am
Location: SYDNEY --- EA - Network, Retailer - EA

Re: Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Postby Tracker » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:43 pm

CNG1.jpg
CNG1.jpg (4.03 KiB) Viewed 3741 times

This image is from the official site and gives a commercial indication of the relative cost of CNG..
LPG and Petrol prices are much the same today, and the CNG price is half that of LPG.
I would suspect that the PRICE that they pay for NG, would be somewhat different to what we would pay at home. (but then they have staff to pay and a station to run)

I would use about $50 worth of LPG a week.
If CNG was half the price, then I would be saving $25 a week. ( I have NO idea what it would cost filling at home..)
With the cost of the home compressor at $7000, it would take 280 weeks to repay the investment, or 5 years.
The big unknown is how many K's a charged tank of CNG would take you.
The compressor is said to need a "Service" every 1000 hours, and if you recharge every night and it takes 2 hours a night, then every 500 days you would need a compressor service.
What will that service cost..?
How will that expense blow out the cost recovery time, if it will need 4 services during that period of 5 years..

Have I screwed up my maths and my thinking.. again... :lol:

It's not looking as good as first thought..
..
.
Tracker
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 5067
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:54 am
Location: SYDNEY --- EA - Network, Retailer - EA

Re: Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Postby antoni » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:25 pm

Hi LPG looks the best for costs per k ,,,,,
in my old ute I can get up to 700 ks to a to a fill up...
and $7 k for a CNG pump ?
CNG tanks are like oxy clys ,fill under pressure.
Tony
antoni
Solar Supporter
Solar Supporter
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:18 pm

Re: Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Postby zzsstt » Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:36 am

Tracker - I would also assume that the compressor needs a power source? How much power to run a compressor for 2 hours a night? That needs to be added to the cost.
zzsstt
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 1296
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:27 pm

Re: Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Postby Tracker » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:57 am

zzsstt wrote:Tracker - I would also assume that the compressor needs a power source? How much power to run a compressor for 2 hours a night? That needs to be added to the cost.

Ita vero!
That was one of my first thoughts, but still there was the hope that there was an answer that I had chased a few years back.
The dream is again DEAD...

EVEN considering the use of petrol, the $10000 entry cost and the maintenance costs and the electricity costs and the BIG potential for increased NG and Power costs leave me with no serious hope.

Energy is energy. THEY have said that we have to suffer and have to pay for our sins, and they will ensure that happens. :(
..
.
Tracker
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 5067
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:54 am
Location: SYDNEY --- EA - Network, Retailer - EA

Re: Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Postby Tracker » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:51 am

antoni wrote:...CNG tanks are like oxy clys ,fill under pressure....

and that would suggest that LPG to CNG conversion, would be a whole NEW re-conversion.. So that really kills it... :cry:

I have not investigated the difference between NG and PG, but would have thought that they might have acted the same, and like refrigerant gas, just becomes a liquid under pressure. ie. you would just compress NG and it would become a liquid and use the same LPG cylinder.. My memory of Chem101 is obviously most lacking.. :oops:
..
.
Tracker
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 5067
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:54 am
Location: SYDNEY --- EA - Network, Retailer - EA

Re: Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Postby jaahn » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:28 am

Hi :) :)
Tracker, perhaps the subject has been underplayed for various reasons. Not enough profit/tax in a new fuel. Existing players not interested in competion etc. Easier to say no it won't work. :evil: We always rely on the fearless pioneers to get the new ball rolling, never the establishment.

The economics do not add up however for me. I just do not drive enough. :shock: However if i was in Melbourne and could refuel at the bowser without having to invest in a home system it might be worth it. But the thought of a home refueling station at bargain prices is a big drawcard. Allmost worth the money for bragging rights. :mrgreen:

Here is a thread on another forum I go to, on CNG also. One interesting input from an OS contributer in the business.
http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showth ... formation-!

Cheers Jaahn
jaahn
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:42 am

Re: Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Postby Tracker » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:50 pm

jaahn wrote:However if i was in Melbourne and could refuel at the bowser without having to invest in a home system it might be worth it.

Totally agreed.. I would think the guy would have a lot of customers living in an economic radius, but you MUST have dual fuels.
They even commented that the dear Government added excise to the cost of the FUEL.. There are no free lunches any more...

We know what they said and did with LPG.. It is barely profitable to install LPG these days, and that , despite the big benefit for the environment.. The Govt. does not really care about the environment, only how they can balance the budget.
..
.
Tracker
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 5067
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:54 am
Location: SYDNEY --- EA - Network, Retailer - EA

Re: Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Postby zzsstt » Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:17 pm

Tracker wrote:They even commented that the dear Government added excise to the cost of the FUEL..


Any vehicular "fuel" has excise applied. Technically even a backyard biodiesel producer is supposed to licence their operation and pay excise, though the rates may (I don't recall) be lower than petrol and diesel for a limited time period.

It will be interesting, because if home-compressed gas becomes more popular the government will have to chase down that revenue. The same applies for electric vehicles, which is an area that they have so far not had to face because of the limited number of such vehicles.

But imagine, if they can say that a private citizen making their own biodiesel from waste frying oil or home grown canola has to pay excise, presumably they can say the same for electric vehicles. So if I recharge my electric car from free solar (PV) power, somehow I will end up having to pay the government.........
zzsstt
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 1296
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:27 pm

Re: Any one using Natural Gas for their car.

Postby Tracker » Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:09 pm

zzsstt wrote:But imagine, if they can say that a private citizen making their own biodiesel from waste frying oil or home grown canola has to pay excise, presumably they can say the same for electric vehicles. So if I recharge my electric car from free solar (PV) power, somehow I will end up having to pay the government.........

and how could they charge excise for use of Home-Brew car fuel..??? :(
CNG-Costs.jpg
CNG-Costs.jpg (21.15 KiB) Viewed 3653 times

Now this just arrived and is interesting but it does not seem to account for the actual massive cost of the compressor or the 1000Hr servicing or the life expectancy or the electricity to run the whole show.
CNG-Benefits.jpg
CNG-Benefits.jpg (25.33 KiB) Viewed 3653 times

the benefits sound great but,,,
CNG-Specs.jpg
CNG-Specs.jpg (14.37 KiB) Viewed 3652 times

2.2KwH for the compressor... ;) ... Much as you may have expected..
The only question I am left with is what constitutes a FULL CNG tank and how far that will take you.
I have a 65Ltr LPG tank and that typically last a working week.. ie.. Typical usage of 12Ltr/day, which is about 2 hours compressor time (.. do I have my thoughts right..) or ABOUT 4KwH of electricity a day.
No issue if I have solar, provided that I leave the van home during the day and work at night.. :(
At least the bride would be happy... :oops:

PS - I can't get my head around these facts..
Time to fill 60Ltr CNG tank = 2.5Hrs
Output: 6M3/Hr = 6.6L of Petrol..

Oi.. :!: .. does this say a CNG tank holds the equivalent of about 17Ltrs of petrol.

ie.. HOW far do you get from a TANK of CNG.. :?: .. This makes me think that a 60Ltr CNG tank would demand daily filling.

and BTW - Most vehicles simply MUST start using petrol (I understand) and so I certainly can't go to CNG alone, or CNG and LPG..
..
.
Tracker
Solar Crusader
Solar Crusader
 
Posts: 5067
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:54 am
Location: SYDNEY --- EA - Network, Retailer - EA

PreviousNext

Return to Electric/Alternative Fuel Vehicles

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

new solar power specials