Energy Matters Forums

[scorpio]

http://www.betterplace.com/

Australian page
http://australia.betterplace.com/get-in ... awodTDW1aw

[Millsy]

I do like the idea of electric cars, however i have two problems with them, firstly and most notably, they cost far to much and the other is almost all of them look seriously ugly. why don’t they at least use designs that are already popular!!

Some companies are really using them to make motoring just as expensive as it is now, Such as Better Place, although they are one of the few to have a nice car design. They advertise their system as costing as much or a little less than running a normal petrol engine. I just think; No Thanks. I am looking for a car that costs very little to run and is as environmentally friendly as possible. At the moment it seems the best option is to go with one of the latest diesel engines such as the new Mini Cooper or Ford Econetic Fiesta, it uses 3.7L/100KM, 98g/km of CO2, it also looks really nice. It costs almost nothing to run and the starting price, for the ford New, is about $17,000, much more affordable than $55,000 for the electric car from Mitsubishi.

[JuliusH]

Ugly??? Audi R8 eTron
That doesn't look ugly to me and really is electrically powered.
Cost, yeah that will be an issue.
You have to realize though that most models are for test purpose. If they have more experience with electrical cars, they will start producing in larger quantities and this will reduce the price. But unfortunately this will take some time.

Another issue would be the charging of electrical cars. Unlike a fuel tank which you can fill in a minute or so, this is not possible with batteries (yet). So first they need to solve that problem before you could actually replace traditional fueled cars...

[Millsy]

Hi JuliusH

Wow, ok the Audi is very nice aparently it will take about 7 hours of charging from your home socket to charge an electric car. Also, this is why companies such as Better Place are setting up charging booths and battery changing stations that take less than 2 mins to replace the battery. This we would obviously have to pay for, they are calling the battery business the new Oil fields!!

I will add though electric cars are meant to use about 20% of the running costs for a similar sized petrol engine also korea and china are really pushing the limit on production of electric cars, so perhaps it wont be long till we see much cheaper models coming out.

Thanks for the reply.
Gareth.

[JuliusH]

Hi Milsy,

yes I know. But it will probably take a while before there is any infrastructure to charge an electric car. As far as I have heard, the first successful deployment of electrical cars will be in places where the cars will drive short distances, as already happens with electrical golf cart. They never really driver more than 10KM per day. The next step will probably be vehicles in industrial complexes or large shopping centers.
But for long distances we still have to wait a bit

Julius

[scorpio]

First drive: Volvo C30 electric car

Toby Hagon
September 29, 2009 - 1:58PM

If you could ignore the promotional stickers that scream "electric car", then the Volvo C30 BEV (battery electric vehicle) could almost look like a regular three-door hatchback of Volvo's smallest, most affordable vehicle.

Look a bit closer, though, and the one-off development version of the C30 BEV (there are actually two similar development vehicles) starts to reveal some of its electric secrets.

Hidden among the generic plastic grille is a small flap that reveals a powerpoint input. The traditional fuel flap is inoperable.

As I slip inside the cabin there's an assortment of extras, including a kill switch that allows everything to be shut down in the event of an emergency.

And the dash does without a traditional tacho and fuel gauge; in their place is a gauge that estimates how many kilowatts of power are being produced (or saved - more on that later) and a battery meter.

The "eco meter", which estimates how much power you're using inside the cabin (for headlights, air-conditioning, the sound system and other ancillaries) isn't working but will become part of the production car planned for 2012, which this vehicle will help produce.

Welcome to the Volvo test track in Gothenburg, Sweden. Volvo used the 2009 Frankfurt motor show to announce it would begin selling a plug-in electric car in 2012.

Currently known as the C30 BEV, it will be a car that produces no harmful emissions and can be recharged in a regular powerpoint.

The Volvo C30 BEV has an estimated range of between 120 and 150 kilometres, which Volvo says would suffice for 90 per cent of daily commuters' needs. It has two 150kg electric motors in the back that combine to store 24 kilowatts hours (kWh) of energy.

The electric motor can deliver a maximum of 82kW of power, but today it's been detuned and is making more like "60 or 70kW", according to my co-driver, a Volvo engineer.

To sit in, though, the only giveaway of all this technology is the unique gauges and the silent nature of the electric motors.

To start the C30 BEV development car you turn the key; the only thing to remind you the car hasn't got a flat battery (there's no sound of an engine turning over) are the lights that come to life on the dash.

The modified gear selector does without gears - there are none in the car, with the electric motor's huge torque reserves and 11,000rpm limit enough to propel it to an electronically limited top speed of 130km/h.

Taking off there's a noticeable shudder from the drive shafts; think of it as a legacy of this car being a development vehicle.

No such qualms with the acceleration, which is more than acceptable up to 60km/h, able to keep pace - and even out-accelerate - other small cars.

Volvo says it will accelerate from 0 to 100km/h in about 10.5 seconds, which is thoroughly acceptable.

As speed builds, though, some of the enthusiasm is lost, although the futuristic whir of the motor (its pitch gets higher as speed rises) is enough to take my mind off it.

The sound is like a Hollywood-ised space ship crossed with a computer game. At higher speeds the electric motor is still forging on, but its progress has been blunted slightly, almost as though hitting a headwind.

I also notice that gliding on and off the accelerator leads to some slack in the driveline as the power engages, then releases, then re-engages. The biggest thing to get used to, though, is the regenerative braking, which manifests itself in unnatural deceleration when you lift off the accelerator.

As soon as you stop accelerating the electric motor reverses and tries to turn kinetic energy (the forward motion of the car) back in to electricity.

When I finish my short stint the only sound from outside the car is the humming of a cooling fan trying to cool the batteries. Such high energy demands can generate huge amounts of heat in a battery (just like the battery on a mobile phone or laptop computer can get hot) so require additional cooling.

My drive is brief, but long enough to realise this sort of electric car can have a future. But only if - and it's a big if - the numbers can be made to add up.

Batteries are currently prohibitively expensive, partly because car makers aren't buying them in the same sorts of volumes as mobile phone makers, so "prices are up to four times more", according to Volvo.

This story was found at: http://www.theage.com.au/drive/motor-ne ... -gada.html

[beachbum]

I reckon the technology is here already to mass produce electric cars that can be recharged at home. It is just not in the car manufacturers best interest to put them on the market yet. They are plainly adhering to their normal sales and marketing plans and are releasing 'hybrid' vehicles first. This is so that they can suck the maximum amount of bucks from the market, over the longest possible time.
Take the Prius for instance. We are told (just after the release of the second generation model) that the next model will have a home charging capability. I am sure they could have done that with generation one if they wanted to - or released a completely electric car instead of going down the hybrid path.
Europe and the USA have had decent electric cars for some time now. Why do we in Australia have to be drip fed 'NEW' technology in a succession of slightly improved models that are 'dumbed' down versions of what they ship to Europe, etc.
I will be dead and buried before EV's are mainstream here.
Just cut to the chase and give us a worlds best practice electric car!
NOW !
The Australian Government should be actively 'encouraging' carmakers to leapfrog us to the front of the pack, by withholding their substantial subsidies from those that insist on supply old technology cars, and rewarding those who comply.

[mikepotts64]

This is a great Aussie story.....
http://www.evme.com.au/

[beachbum]

Re
This is a great Aussie story.....

Thanks Mike. I knew that there were places that retro fitted the required components to existing ICM cars, but didn't know about this mob.
They are on to something great, now all they have to do is negotiate with Mazda to purchase their vehicles sans all the bits they take out. If they could manage that, the price would/should come down dramatically.
$70k is a bit much for my wallet, but it proves what I said in my post IS possible, and all the hand wringing by manufacturers is just bunkum designed to extract as many 'research' dollars as possible from gullible government development programs.
I dabbled with the idea of converting an ICM vehicle to an EV about two years ago when the dollar was worth 70 cents and came to the conclusion that it was going to be too expensive. Now the dollar is over 90 cents I will have to revisit the idea. Lithium Polymer cells were in their infancy then as were electric wheels (where each wheel housing is an electric motor)

[moemoke]

Or you could have a look at a Blade Electron http://www.bev.com.au/
They are about $40000, I think the EVme are about $60-70000.
I have been for a ride in a Blade and it was great, just which I could afford one and lived closer to by work